the Message Continues ... 10/15
Article 10
THE COMPATIBILITY OF ISLAM, SECULARISM AND MODERNITY
( An interview with Asghar Ali Engineer, a reknown Muslim intellectual in India )
By Farish A Noor
( Note:The Institute for the Study of Islam in the Modern World (ISIM) of Leiden, Netherlands, recently organized a three-day workshop and seminar series around the theme of Muslim intellectuals and the challenges facing the Muslim world of the present. Dr. Farish A Noor, who took part in the workshop, managed to interview some of the participants on matters related to their own concerns as well as those of the seminar. As part of series of discussions, he also spoke to the Indian activist and scholar Asghar Ali Engineer about the issue of secularism and its relevance to contemporary Muslim society. Here are a few excerpts from this interview ):
Noor: You are known in many parts of the Muslim world for a number of things:
your work on women's rights in Islam; your struggle against religious
intolerance and sectarianism, and your studies on secularism. You have often
spoken about the compatibility of Islam and modern values. Can you tell us
what you mean by that?
Engineer: What I mean is that there is no serious or insurmountable
difficulty between Islam, as deen or a way of life, with the modern world we
live in. If you look at modern political ideologies and modern political
morality today, you will find that many of the Quranic concepts of reason,
justice, wisdom and benevolence are there as well. So why is it so difficult
for us to deal with modern political culture and morality as well? There is
no reason why Muslims cannot and should not work with and within the
structures and institutions of modern politics. One can even say that much of
what we recognise as Islamic values and principles are already there in the
modern political culture around us.
Noor: What about those who argue that Islam cannot accommodate or tolerate
the 'secular' aspect of modernity? There are many Muslim thinkers in the
world today who argue that as Muslims we cannot and should not accept any of
the values which come under the general label of 'secular'.
Engineer: Most of these people do not understand what is meant by secularism.
Now if by that you mean a culture of hedonism, wastefulness and vice, then of
course we do not accept that. But you cannot reduce secularism to simply
that, and such forms of decadence can exist even in a non-secular
environment. The process of secular development in other parts of the world
has also broadened the worldviewof human beings, liberated people from their
prejudice and fears, and allowed for the creation of more open and plural
societies. Now we cannot say that all of that is bad or un-Islamic, can we?
For me one of the most attractive and redeeming features of secularism is the
emphasis that it places on pluralism and equal rights for all: equal rights
for men and women, equal rights between the rich and the poor, equal rights
between all religious and cultural communities. So it is not at all difficult
for us to see and understand why so many communities in the world today have
opted to work within a secular system. This is even more important if you
happen to be in a religious or cultural minority like the Muslims or
Christians in India.
Now in India the Muslims constitute a minority of about 12 per cent. But even
so they happen to be an important minority as they tend to be concentrated in
certain areas and they tend to be found in certain fields of work. As such
they are an identifiable constituency and this makes them very important to
politicians and political parties. The political parties in India now realise
that the Muslims represent a bloc vote and a united constituency that they
need to have on their side. So many of the more progressive parties and
movements in India have begun to court the Muslim vote.
Noor: And how do the Muslims in Indiareact to this? How should a religious
minority operate within such a political environment?
Engineer: The Indian Muslims realise that as a minority they need to think
strategically. Obviously they cannot support any kind of religious movement
or political party that works against them. So in the face of the threat
represented by extremist Hindu chauvinists, the Muslims - like the Christians
- now support secular political parties that promise to uphold and defend the
principles of pluralism and democracy. This was why Nehru was so important
and popular for us, even till today. You see, Nehru was a great defender of
the secular principles and values of constitutional democracy. He never
wanted India to develop to be a religious state where only one religious
community was dominant and able to impose its religious or cultural hegemony
on others.
For many Muslims and other religious minorities in India, he was their great
defender. What is more that episode in Indian history has taught us the
importance and value of secularism as a philosophy for living. Today even the
Indian Mullahs and Ulama have called on Muslims to work with other secular
parties and movements, in order to defend themselves against dominant
religious parties like the BJP. The Islamists in predominantly Muslim
countries need to learn from this; they need to understand how the Other
feels. Minorities always prefer to support and work with composite movements
that can absorb and accept them. This is why the Chinese in your country,
Malaysia, choose to work with the government.
As for your Islamists in Malaysia - they must understand that this is how
other minorities feel. It is natural for them to be scared and worried, even
if their fears are baseless. As a Muslim in India, I find myself turning away
from any Indian party that calls for Hindu dominance or promotes Hindu
chauvinism as its ideology. How do you think non-Muslims feel when the
situation is reversed and they confront Muslim groups that talk the same kind
of exclusive language? Its only natural for them to react with fear. So we
all need to be more understanding and accommodating.
Noor: Its funny to hear you say that, for there are many Islamic movements in
the world today that are calling for a more active, even militant approach of
pushing the Muslim agenda worldwide.
Engineer: On a global scale we can see that we Muslims are a minority in
fact. We are not even the biggest religion in the world, so why do all these
movements in so many Muslim countries talk about converting the world to
Islam? This only makes non-Muslims fear Islam and fear Muslims even more.
This kind of talk is not even Islamic by its nature - it is arrogant and
self-defeating.
Noor: The other aspect of your work has been your sustained critique against
predominant practices in the Muslim world that are based on traditions and
customs which you argue are un-Islamic and culturally-mediated. Can you
elaborate a little further on this?
Engineer: Now we must remember that religion is a culturally mediated
phenomenon. By this we are referring to the practice of religion, as opposed
to the values or message of religion. This is true of Islam as it is with
every other religion in the world. All religions have a universal message in
them, but the universal message of Islam has been reinterpreted and
recontextualised over the centuries thanks to the mode of transmission
through which it is spread. In many cases, the cultural mediation of Islam
has led to the encroachment of new values, ideas, practices that are not even
Islamic, yet most of us think they are. For instance, take the example of
Muslim marriages these days. Now in many Islamic countries Muslim women who
get married are told that they need a 'Wali' or guardian to marry them off.
Sometimes this can be very complicated and these poor women have to undergo
all kinds of problems and difficulties when they want to marry somebody.
But the holy Qur'an does not call for a Wali for a woman to marry. The
concept of the Wali is a Shariah concept, which makes it a culturally
mediated concept. It developed from a context and time when Muslims lived in
patriarchal societies where men dominated everything. But why do we maintain
such concepts now? Why do we still keep these practices alive? Now the whole
world thinks that Islam is a man-made religion which caters for men's needs
more than women's. But this is not true at all. Islam is so democratic, so
just, fair and equal in its treatment of these issues that it allows women
complete freedom to marry when they are mature enough to do so. In Islam,
women are free to contract their own marriages.
These kinds of contradictions create the impression that Islam is such a
rigid religion, while the truth is that Islam upholds the values of what we
call today democratic governance. The problem is that the culture of Muslim
societies still do not reflect this democratic spirit of Islam. The cultural
mediation of Islam, which led to the creation of an Arabised Shariah and
Islamic culture, has eroded and disfigured the fundamentally democratic and
egalitarian ethos of Islam.
Noor: How could we have reached such a state?
Engineer: Why is this so? I can only say that many people unfortunately do
not want to be free. People - and this includes Muslim people - want to be
led, they want to have some kind of mental refuge. But the danger is that
this opens the way for all kinds of authoritarian leaders, be they mullahs or
politicians, who then come to offer them miracle cures and empty promises for
their troubles. In the end they become victims of their cultural practices.
It is because so much of our religion and culture has been abused and
disfigured thus by culturally mediated demands that we need to revive it from
within. Holding fast to the message of our religion, we need to work towards
a reform from within that will allow us to break from the cycle of abuse and
exploitation of religion for sectarian ends or self-interest. One of the ways
we can do this is by working within a modern secular social and political
culture which reminds us of our fundamental human rights and obligations, and
which protects our interests as individuals and communities.
Noor: And where do Muslim intellectuals come in all this? What role are they
meant to play in contemporary Muslim societies?
Engineer: Muslim intellectuals, activists and academics today need to realise
that they have a great moral responsibility before them. They must play an
active role in defending the rights of Muslims as a collective, but also the
rights of individual Muslims within that collective. That is why for me the
real test has always been how these intellectuals address the issue of
women's rights in Islam. As long as they do not take this as a serious cause
- perhaps the most serious cause of all - then they cannot be said to be
committed intellectuals.
But many of our intellectuals are also not well versed in the Qur'an and
Hadith. There is the tendency to forget the need to base all our struggles on
the holy Qur'an and what is says. We cannot confront oppressive governments
or conservative Mullahs without knowing the Qur'an ourselves, which is why I
always tell these intellectuals that they need to understand the laws and
philosophy of their own religion first. Only then can you call them 'Muslim'
intellectuals in the true sense of the word.
Dr. Farish A Noor is a Malaysian political scientist and human rights
activist. He is currently writing a book on the Pan-Malaysian Islamic Party,
PAS.
May 2000
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